Cairo, Asharq Al-Awsat – In an exclusive interview conducted with Asharq Al-Awsat, Judge Tahani El-Gabali, Vice President of Egypt’s Supreme Constitutional Court, discussed the court’s decision to dissolve Egypt’s parliament, the supplementary constitutional declaration which handed many powers to Egypt’s Supreme Council of the Armed Forces [SCAF] and the expected results of Egypt’s presidential election.

Tahani El-Gabali was the first female Egyptian judge, being appointed to the judiciary by former president Mubarak in 2003. She graduated from Cairo University’s Faculty of Law in 1973, and has worked in commercial, civic, criminal and family law. She has defended a number of high profile cases throughout her career, including the case of the January 1977 Bread Riots, amongst others. She also handled a number of prominent labor rights and women’s rights cases. She currently serves as the Vice President of Egypt’s Supreme Constitutional Court, the highest judicial authority in the country.

The following is the text of the interview:

[Asharq Al-Awsat] A number of political and revolutionary powers, led by the Muslim Brotherhood, have announced their rejection of the decision taken by SCAF to dissolve Egypt’s People’s Assembly. What is your view of this matter?

[El-Gabali] Firstly, we must look more closely at this group, for it is an overestimation to describe this group as a political “power”. It would be more accurate to describe it as a group of individuals, for it does not represent any segment of [Egyptian] society. Therefore we must view the situation correctly, namely that those refusing this ruling are the Muslim Brotherhood, and the Islamist trend that support them, as well as some general figures, and, of course, they are all welcome to their personal opinions. This group has been brought together by their decision to deviate from what is right, and this represents a direct violation of the legitimacy of the Egyptian state, which is something that is not subject to bargaining. Indeed, this group’s actions do not represent political bargaining, but rather an attack targeting the institutes of the state. I believe that the Brotherhood are deceiving this group in order to defend its approach which aims to destroy the state and replace it with a Muslim Brotherhood one. Whether they are aware of this or not, this is the reality on the ground, because the Supreme Constitutional Court’s ruling is valid…therefore this issue is not a question of agreement or objection. The same goes for the powers granted to SCAF, as the ruling authority that has been in charge of national affairs over the past 18 months, which also issued the interim constitutional announcements which led to the elections of the dissolved parliament. This means that SCAF has every right to take decisions regarding general national affairs, and therefore the views of these forces are not binding; not to SCAF and not to the Egyptian people.

[Asharq Al-Awsat] Those rejecting the Supreme Constitutional Court’s decision are claiming that it has overstepped its authority, in the sense that whilst it can issue a ruling on the constitutionality of the elections, it has no authority to dissolve parliament. What is your view?

[El-Gabali] The decision of the Supreme Constitutional Court was not to dissolve parliament, but to rule that this parliament was unconstitutional, because it had no constitutional basis. This unconstitutionality carries over to the mechanism of how this parliament was chosen. There are legal precedents for this issue, namely 5 legal precedents, which confirm the unconstitutionality of Egypt’s People’s Assembly, from its first session. This unconstitutionality therefore also affects the decisions and laws that have been issued. The power of constitutional rule is derived from the constitution, whilst unconstitutionality represents a state of illegality…and it is Egypt’s Supreme Constitutional Court that decides this, whilst the decisions of this court are binding on all state authorities. I think that the Muslim Brotherhood has incited all this confusion in order to protect its political gains, whilst it does not respect the independence of the judiciary.

[Asharq Al-Awsat] Does the decision to dissolve Egypt’s People’s Council also apply to the Shura Council?

[El-Gabali] The dissolution of the Shura Council is subject to appeal or the political will of the people. The Shura Council is subject to the same issues as the People’s Council, particularly as it is a complementary body to the legislative council and it has a limited role. Therefore, if the original body no longer exists, perhaps the branch also no longer has a role.

[Asharq Al-Awsat] Some people have put forward the idea of ignoring the court ruling and holding parliamentary sessions outside of parliament, after the armed forces prevented MPs from entering Egypt’s parliament. What is the likelihood of this happening?

[El-Gabali] This is certainly false.

[Asharq Al-Awsat] The Muslim Brotherhood has announced that its candidate, Mohamed Mursi, has won the presidential elections, however we are all still waiting for the official results. What is the legality of this?

[El-Gabali] This is a transgression of the will of the Egyptian people, and this is most dangerous, for until now the official results of the Egyptian presidential elections have not been announced to allow us to know who is the winner and loser. Therefore this is an attempt to anticipate the results and hijack the legitimacy of the state and violate the sanctity of the Egyptian people. I believe that the announcement of Mursi’s victory is an attempt to violate the sanctity of the Egyptian state, because revolutions may topple ruling regimes, but they do not destroy states; everybody must understand that the Egyptian state is not a piece of bread to be eaten.

[Asharq Al-Awsat] You previously spoke about a Muslim Brotherhood “plot” to destroy the country. What do you mean?

[El-Gabali] Certainly… what has been revealed so far includes transgression of Egypt’s constitutional and legal rules which determines the powers and remit of each institute or authority, and this is something that must be exercised as part of a state based on the rule of law. We must ask ourselves, is this a state based on the rule of law or not? I believe that the answer to this question will clarify the bigger picture.

[Asharq Al-Awsat] How can SCAF confront the Muslim brotherhood’s plans? Where will such a confrontation lead?

[El-Gabali] I cannot speak on behalf of SCAF, and I am not authorized to speak about its decisions or responses, but all that is required is a rational reading of the statement issued by SCAF yesterday, for each line of this statement reflects its commitment and historic responsibility towards the management of the Egyptian state during this current period.

[Asharq Al-Awsat] The Muslim Brotherhood’s political coalition – led by Mursi – has announced its refusal to take the oath of office in front of the Supreme Constitutional Court, as called for by the supplementary constitutional declaration. What is your view of this?

[El-Gabali] This is part of the inviolability of a state based on the rule law. We have never seen a presidential candidate who would take part in an election in light of a specific constitution and law…and then should he be elected would want to choose the body that he takes the oath of office before. This is new to us, in terms of the rules in force in a state based on the rule of law!

[Asharq Al-Awsat] What if the next presidency swears the oath of office in Tahrir Square, as some people are calling for?

[El-Gabali] This is a “folkloric image”. The Egyptian people know that they have a state, and this state must be respected, otherwise we are looking at charges of treason.

[Asharq Al-Awsat] The Muslim Brotherhood are using the justification that they do not recognize the supplementary constitutional declaration that was issued by SCAF, calling for a referendum on this. Do you think there should be a national referendum on this?

[El-Gabali] They do not recognize the Egyptian state, in itself! Was there a referendum on the previous constitutional announcement that called for parliamentary elections, and which resulted in an Islamist parliamentary majority? Why should there be a referendum on this supplementary constitutional declaration? This is an irrational demand, particularly as all these [constitutional] announcements are temporary, and the final decision will be decided by the new constitutional, and there should be a national referendum on this. We must remember that it was the Muslim Brotherhood who were the major obstacles to the issuance of this constitution in the early days of the transitional phase.

[Asharq Al-Awsat] What about Egypt’s squares and streets that are overflowing with millions of demonstrators, protesting against the supplementary constitutional declaration and the dissolution of parliament? Don’t these protests represent the true will of the Egyptian people?

[El-Gabali] Firstly, I do not think Egypt’s streets and squares are overflowing. Tahrir Square, during the Egyptian revolution, served as the conscience of the Egyptian people, however today it is the epitome of political pluralism, and if those in Tahrir Square left, they would be replaced by others with a different view. So Tahrir Square is no longer an expression of the Egyptian people, or its collective demands.

[Asharq Al-Awsat] In light of this congested atmosphere…do you expect a continuation of the political roadmap and for power to be handed over at the end of the current month?

[El-Gabali] This depends on what the committee supervising the elections decides with regards to the presidential election results, and the presence of violations, and whether any such violations have prejudiced the collective vote of the Egyptian people, and what could be done in this case. However, I personally believe that the issue will be decided within the coming hours.

[Asharq Al-Awsat] The Muslim Brotherhood have said that if their candidate, Mohamed Mursi, does not win the vote, this would mean the inevitable outbreak of a second revolution. To what extent is this possible?

[El-Gabali] Any new revolution will be a revolution carried out by the Muslim Brotherhood, not the Egyptian people, and this would be to grab power and the state. This would not be an Egyptian popular revolution, which remains the 25 January revolution, which was seeking a modern, democratic state based on a constitution and laws, for the sake of freedom, human dignity and social justice. As for the Brotherhood, they want to carry out a counter-revolution against this revolution, in order to implement the dream of [Muslim Brotherhood founder] Hassan al-Banna.